XtremeSpeakFreely

So the top tax bracket goes from 36 to 39 percent. Hmm...tax increases for the wealthy? About time!


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... Collection

Wheres the 1.3 Trill. shortfall coming from? Borrowing? Thats a hell of a lot in one year.

It's a combination of borrowing and printing money. As much as 1.3 trill sounds, it's actually 25% less than the 2010 budget deficit. Our current deficit is $12.2 trillion which sounds big but compared to GDP is in the 85% range. I believe the average debt to gdp ratio for Europe is somewhere around 89% so we are still not as bad you guys.

I think you mean our current debt is $12.2 trill, the article says our deficit on 2009 was $1.6 trill and 2010 will be $1.3 trill which is roughly 20% less so yea its definitely better. Our deficit is around 9% of our GDP, Europe is 6.7%.

"The ratio of overall debt to gross domestic product in the European Union—a key indicator of fiscal health—will jump to almost 80% this year, according to the European Commission. While that's shy of the 89% level in the spendthrift U.S., it's up from 60% in 2007. For this year, the combined deficits of European governments will hit 6.7% of GDP, more than double the 3% mandated under EU law. In Greece, Britain, Latvia, and Spain, the 2010 shortfall is in double digits."

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... topStories

Where did you get that? Is that projections?

Over $12,300 for every American man, woman and child, or $28,300 for every worker in 2008 (or more than $6K more than the poverty line for a family of 6) for one year of government services. And even with over $1.2 trillion in new taxes they still come up >$1.4T short.

The spending freeze is truly laughable. It covers a mere 1/8th of govt expenditures and actually represents a guaranteed increase in programs that were slated for a cut. Besides, it doesn't even take effect till 2011, so that leaves plenty of time to increase spending before it gets frozen. Then whats left of course will be completely politically impossible for congress/senate to deal with - farm subsidies, education, Nat'l parks, and Air traffic controllers.

And all of this is really only what is planned. Suffice it to say this is the optimistic projection. Reality as usual will prove this to be fact.

And we expect to do this for the next decade, before the deficits get even WORSE?

-SS

I wish Bush were President.

You keep stirring that pot. I'll keep calling a spade a spade.

Yup, leave it up to the low and middle classes to determine who has "too much money" and who "needs" to be taxed more. Sounds fair to me. Maybe the lower and middle classes need better money management. Or to go to college. Or to get a job. Or to stop sucking the governmental teet and get off welfare. Or stop being jealous wastes of life. I vote all of the above.

I honestly don't understand tax brackets. Everyone gets out of the system what they put in, except the lower classes. They put NOTHING into the system and get almost EVERYTHING out of it. It's funny that the lower classes whine about how much money the upper classes have, but if they got off welfare and got a job, they would have more money than the government is sending them in the form of a you're-a-lazy-piece-of-sh*t check.

Christ almighty.

I think yall like stirring each other's pot and opposing one another more than anything else.. entertainment reciprocation stimulation...

Tom talks a lot about class envy considering he is squarely planted in the middle class. In fact, just the other day I heard him envying a fellow coworker for getting the better, more high paying job duties. Thought police, over here!

I agree with everything except the bold; if you can barely afford to eat, how will you be able to put yourself through college?? Finding a job that is not the equivalent to modern day slavery(i.e. NOT $7.25 an hour) is pretty hard without an education, but then...to get an education........catch 22.

Most people will leech onto to the government's teet because of lack of willpower or the cultural or environmental background they come from does not value education or a hard earned income(i'm not profiling, just stating facts). I can speak from experience when I immigrated here with my family; yea, we went on welfare for a few years. However, in my family anyway, we value education as much as, or more than hard work. My point is that it IS possible but it's not a 1-size-fits-all approach.

"Modern day slavery" is 50% more than what I make. Yeah, americans have it hard.

What is the cost of living in Romania?

Tom is bourgeoisie.

I honestly haven't the slightest idea as to what you're talking about.

What's wrong with me wanting MORE duties at work? I'm willing to work, unlike a large percentage of this God damn country. Excuse me for wanting more in-depth and important projects at work than the menial labor I'm assigned.

Also, unlike you, I don't steal from the company I work for, Captain Chocolate Milk.

Tom, I don't think we understand your reasoning on opposing the 36-39% tax bracket increase, when chances are you'll never be in that tax bracket.. chances are none of us will ever be in that tax bracket, it's just a fact of life..

I don't know the back story, but if you were complaining about not getting extra duties and raise on a low wage college job, while someone else did.. There's a certain irony there concerning your stance on the upper class tax increases.

I know you're in college now and have the world in front of you... and by all means and god speed in attaining your riches. but the reality is, well you'll see once you graduate and work for 20 yrs.

I know what it's like to be incollege and have your dreams ahead of you.. I also know what it's like to come to the crushing realization that those lofty dreams were just dreams once your meat hits the grill-so to speak.

I'm not saying anything bad about you, but I think you may be a little naive in the reality of the world concerning ambitions. we all were when we were young.
the job you have now is nothing but a means of partial income, just do the job and get paid. finish college and work on your dreams. just dont be disappointed when the real world hits home. I know I had a hard crash around age 27 when I finally figured out I was never gonna be some big shot, like I envisioned in college.

I'm not complaining, really. A coworker/friend of mine gets more in-depth jobs like creating software images while I get stuck with basic hardware repair and cleaning. While I don't mind and I enjoy working with hardware, also creating an image and having my name put on my work would be nice. He does 80% of the image work and I do the rest, but he gets all the credit. I'm not jealous or anything because I will admit he knows a lot more about the background scripting and such than I do, but I would like to recognized for what I do for the project - like anyone would.

So why do YOU support this tax hike, mike? Because you don't fall in that 36-39% range? I've said it time and time again - the rich people drive on the same roads, are pulled over and ticketed by the same police, have the same fire department rescue their cat, and are protected by the same army, so why should they pay a larger percentage of their income (39% vs my parent's low 30's%) into taxes? Who are we to decide they don't need that money? Who are we to decide that they didn't earn it? How much money the "rich" have is no ones' business but theirs.

Yup, sucks when we make 50% more than you do, but our stuff costs 50% more than yours. Keep in mind the exchange rates too, pal.

Tom, that sounds like a reasonable complaint concerning work. just stick tight and in a few years you'll have some lower guy supporting you, and he'll feel the same way you do now. that's just the way the game is played. it's a reality check on the real world.

as far as the tx hike for the upper class, I can't really say I'm for it or against it. but your logic is a little flawed. would you prefer a flat tax on everyone? like %30... if so, someone making $15/yr would pay $4500 and take home $11.5K... While someone making $1 million a yr would pay $300k and take home $700k.

Not only would the US take in less tax income, but can you expect that lower income person to survive on $11.5k a yr with a family? no.... Can the other guy survive on $700k? obviously yes..

plus, by decreasing the tx bracket on the higher income brackets, you significantly reduce the tax income for the US, and obviously increase the deficit. let's not even discuss budget wastes here (I now that's the next topic someone will introduce at this point), this is strictly a tax bracket conversation.

now couple that with what the upper class tax income brings to the country.. is it fair on a theoretical individual level? no. but is it what the country needs to survive financially? yes. Does it impeded the ability for the upper class to survive? no.

that is why the upper class income levels are taxed higher.

I'm not sure what you dont get about this basic mathematical reality. you don't have to like it, but it's just the way it is....

now add to the fact that you are working a college job that probably makes less than $20k. you've never divulged that fact. it may be much less. do you want flat tax applied to you, so you pay the same tax rate as someone making 50-100x what you do?

where is the logic in that mentality.. and concerning a flat tax bracket across all income levels, where is the mathematical equation that lets you survive at your income level, while the richer guy still lives in excess?

that's where we see the holes in your logic concerning the rich and tax brackets.

and for a reality check:
here are the 2010 tax brackets http://www.moneybluebook.com/2010-feder ... tax-rates/

Why does there have to be brackets? There's already next to no tax income from me because of all the deductions I get. Student, filing single, etc, so my taxable income is very small, well under $1000, and I made many times that this year. The rich would have the same deductions the poor would, but because the poor make less, the deductions would make their taxable income almost nothing, while the rich still have plenty of income to be taxed.

If there would be so much deficit spending due to decreased revenue, then cut out the government. Cut out programs. Cut out foreign aid. Cut out the bulk. If we have to cut out spending, then bring the troops home.* Impose more strict limits on Medicaid/Medicare.

* - I support the troops being over there, but for sake of argument and to nip "Ok, what would you do to decrease deficit spending" comments in the bud, I said that. Because deficit spending seems to be okay for this government (Obama in particular), then so be it, keep them over there.

I've never divulged how much I made, because it's none of your or anyone elses' business.

lol! I hearya Tom.. If I had my choice Id' buy a self supporting island and live there for the rest of my life... away from all the people sh1t and business and people politics of the world. I used to be a gungho corporate kind of guy out of college, but the last 20 something years has taught me I really have no desire to be a part of society as it exists today, except to meek out an existence and to still be close to friends and family. it is what it is--> that's about the best answer I can offer. a lot of people feel that way in this day and age.

Who cares how much they make. Taxing them more under your justifications just screams jealousy and greed, in my opinion. Just because they have what you (and others) call "excess" is no reason for them to pay a larger percentage (with respect to their income) than I do, (also with respect to my income).

We would all pay less in taxes if most everyone didn't walk around and say "Well, the government should fix this" or "That's the government's problem" or "We should help them" because in the end, it all comes out of the tax payers' pocket. Saying something along those lines and counting on the government to do something expecting not to pay anything out of pocket is insane, because it still comes out of your (everyone) pocket, unless you (everyone) suck the governmental teet, like I said before.

Take for instance, foreign aid. Some people sympathetic to the Haitians plight right now want our government to send aid over. Instead of my ass being taxed to pay for their aid, how about the person that wants to send aid over there donates to the Red Cross? Sh*t happens and "Acts of God" kill people every day. It is what it is.

There is so much spending that could be cut. I'm going to leave it at that. I'm done.

25% for a married couple making 35K gross EACH per year... disgusting.

ok, tom.. have your way. I'm not about arguing with you.. I was just trying to point out why you were being made fun of by others here.. I have no wish to try and prove an opposite point with you on this forum of internet opinions... I was only trying to give some logical reasoning why others comment the way they do about your mentality. obviously you don't care or want to hear it. no more comments from me. you can win, if that's what you want... you're right... no skin off my back... I'm fine with your view of things, it's your view...

As I've said before. Just because they make more money does not mean they should shoulder more of the bill. Just because they have more "disposable income" as some say, does not mean that it should be disposed of on lower classes. The rich do nothing to keep the poor from making something of themselves and earning a good living.

Nice bait mike by twisting what I said. You argue like my ex girlfriend. "You win, you're right, I'm done arguing..." You got me to say more, but that's the last time.