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 Post subject: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:46 am 
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http://www.dailytech.com/Dropping+Water ... e17553.htm

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Mother Earth appears to be solving the carbon-based warming "problem" for us

The U.S. is currently considering legislation that would enact steep restrictions on carbon emissions. Already burdened from high insurance costs, high taxes, and a struggling economy, Congress is asking Americans to shoulder another load -- an estimated cost of $1,600 per citizen per year to fight warming. And internationally climate change proponents have suggested other major lifestyle restrictions, such as bans on meat consumption and air travel.

Recently there has been a rash of incidents in which climate alarmists have been embarrassingly caught falsifying data or exaggerating facts and figures. James Hansen, head of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York City, a leading climatology center, was found to have several curiously increased sets of temperature data in his studies, which he claimed were the result of a pesky Y2K bug. At England's East Anglia University, the prestigious Climate Research Unit leaked emails revealed that they had intentionally falsified data temperature data and suppressed scientists who criticized warming. The incident led to the center's director and prominent warming advocated, Phil Jones, to "temporarily" step down.

And most recently Rajendra Pachauri, an Indian official who was curiously appointed head of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) despite not having any formal climate training, was forced to retract statements in a 2007 report which has been used by countries worldwide as a basis for the need to adopting sweeping emissions restrictions. Mr. Pachauri, who won the Nobel Peace Prize, along with Al Gore, for his warming work, is now being pressured to resign.

Despite the apparent bias of many climate researchers, they do have one thing right; carbon levels have risen notably over the twentieth century from about 300 ppm to 375 ppm. While still far from the estimated levels of around 3,000 ppm during the time of the dinosaurs (appr. 150 MYA), the rising levels do mark a legitimate trend. However, there is increasing evidence that the rising carbon, contrary to alarmist reports is actually having remarkably little effect on global temperatures.

A new study authored by Susan Solomon, lead author of the study and a researcher at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Boulder, Colo. could explain why atmospheric carbon is not contributing to warming significantly. According to the study, as carbon levels have risen, the cold air at high altitudes over the tropics has actually grown colder. The lower temperatures at this "coldest point" have caused global water vapor levels to drop, even as carbon levels rise.

Water vapor helps trap heat, and is a far the strongest of the major greenhouse gases, contributing 36–72 percent of the greenhouse effect. However more atmospheric carbon has actually decreased water vapor levels. Thus rather than a "doomsday" cycle of runaway warming, Mother Earth appears surprisingly tolerant of carbon, decreasing atmospheric levels of water vapor -- a more effective greenhouse gas -- to compensate.

Describes Professor Solomon, "There is slow warming that has taken place over the last 100 years. But from one decade to another, there can be fluctuations in the warming trend."

The study was published in the prestigious journal Science.

The new research could help explain why despite tremendously higher carbon levels, the planet was not inhospitable hundreds of millions of years ago. By lowering water vapor levels, the planet might have been able to compensate, at least partially, for atmospheric carbon levels nearly 10 times higher than today's.

Admittedly the picture is still not clear about how our planet reacts to changes in atmospheric composition. Other factors may also be at play in helping the Earth balance temperatures, including ocean currents and solar activity. Ironically, no global warming model appears to accurately model changing water vapor levels and few offer decent consideration to solar activity. Thus much of the model based research used to predict alarming warming is likely badly flawed.

Despite the fact that current evidence points to a minimum role of carbon in affecting our planet's climate, the expensive movement to ban or restrict carbon globally retains significant momentum. It remains to be seen whether politicians choose to consider the latest unbiased research, or instead forge ahead on a crusade against the rather weak greenhouse gas.


:pwnd:

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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:46 am 
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Read the same thing on CSM. So pollution's impact on the climate is a more complicated. No surprises there. There may be many more factors yet to be found. That being the case, we should proceed with caution. There are forces who would like to panic people into some cap and trade system so people promoting it can make money. Those who oppose any notion there is some danger, do so because they want to continue to make money regardless of the cost ... which is of course not entirely know. Those who are sincerely advocating caution for generations not yet born really aren't in a position to influence the debate much.

We may need hundreds of years of data to get a firm grip and some unanimity on the issue. In the meantime should we err on the side of caution or just say fek it, we'll be dead by the time we figure it out?

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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:30 am 
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You know its 10 years since I read an article in Physics World that explained in great detail how H2O was far far more important than CO2 in the earth's atmosphere and was far more important to look .at its change.

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Psalm 14.1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God"
A filthy racist once said: "Yes, I am racist, but only against gypsies. I have nothing against the color of their skin, but against their way of being..... I'd be all for a Holocaust for those sick bastards!"

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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:56 am 
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RIPTIDE wrote:
You know its 10 years since I read an article in Physics World that explained in great detail how H2O was far far more important than CO2 in the earth's atmosphere and was far more important to look .at its change.


Word.

Next. Ban water vapor? If the humidity % of your State gets above a certain level they are going to tax you?

Its all a big F*** joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:59 am 
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Aberration wrote:
RIPTIDE wrote:
You know its 10 years since I read an article in Physics World that explained in great detail how H2O was far far more important than CO2 in the earth's atmosphere and was far more important to look .at its change.


Word.

Next. Ban water vapor? If the humidity % of your State gets above a certain level they are going to tax you?

Its all a big F*** joke.

Found it...
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/17402

OK... so its only 7 years... but I got the hard copy somewhere in a wardrobe. The title says it all....

Quote:
The climatic effects of water vapour

May 1, 2003

Contrary to common belief, the greenhouse effect may have more to do with water in our atmosphere than gases such as carbon dioxide

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Speederlander wrote:
jesus

"Our revenge will be the laughter of our Children" - Bobby Sands
Psalm 14.1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God"
A filthy racist once said: "Yes, I am racist, but only against gypsies. I have nothing against the color of their skin, but against their way of being..... I'd be all for a Holocaust for those sick bastards!"

corruptissima repvblica plvrimae leges


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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:08 am 
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EDIT; Doh, wrong thread.

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Speederlander wrote:
jesus

"Our revenge will be the laughter of our Children" - Bobby Sands
Psalm 14.1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God"
A filthy racist once said: "Yes, I am racist, but only against gypsies. I have nothing against the color of their skin, but against their way of being..... I'd be all for a Holocaust for those sick bastards!"

corruptissima repvblica plvrimae leges


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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:38 am 
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Awesome.

Ever since I started using my brain and dismissed the global warming lunacy I realized that we'd need to do a hell of a lot more to this planet to actually change it. The kind of stuff it endured is just something we can't replicate even with all the bombs in the world. 3 billion years of evolution made this planet able to adjust to small variations. Heck, for the planet an ice age is a "small variation". For us, not so much. We're not influencing it, because it's pretty much a closed system.
Sure, over hundreds of years of polluting and dumping garbage on it we might turn earth into a science fiction type dump of a planet, but we're not there just yet. As long as we keep planting trees we should be ok. Perhaps encourage people to keep stuff a little more instead of constantly buying new stuff. A car will run even if it's 20 years old. It just needs maintenance. No need to shelve 20 grand for a Prius that runs on 1000 extremely environmentally hazardous batteries when you can just repair your old car for 1-2 grand.

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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:48 pm 
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http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103807 :P

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I am going to maintain my opinion regardless of what any fact-finding mission produces so it doesn't follow that I should waste any time in doing so.


George Orwell wrote:
Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct, nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary. In no case would it have been possible, once the deed was done, to prove that any falsification had taken place.


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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:44 pm 
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I think most of us can agree we shouldn't go hawg wild and disregard green living.. hell, China and Mexico City are a perfect example.. BUT, some of these environmentalist radicals are driven by human emotion and political group motivated mentalities. as in every other problem we have in human society, human behavior is the problem, not the logical problem identification or solution.

In 08, I posted a YT video of me shooting a a colt and beretta with the target tacked to a dead pine tree. it was meant to display what the specific model guns behave like shooting rapid fire; controlling recoil and staying on target, etc... but the only comment I got was a question "What did the tree do to you?".. my answer was, "the tree was dead 2 yrs before I tacked a target to it, if you would have been observant enough to see the powdered dead porous wood in the round impacts exiting the tree, maybe you would have not made your unobservant comment."

we are surrounded by idiots everyday who feel they have the right to comment on everything and be right. most of these yahoo's have an IQ not worthy of even reading the comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Dropping water vapor levels are naturally negating CO2's warming effects.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:08 pm 
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mikeb12 wrote:
we are surrounded by idiots everyday who feel they have the right to comment on everything and be right. most of these yahoo's have an IQ not worthy of even reading the comment.

I agree, and really take pity on those who think their opinion is any better than the next guy's, that's got to be a sad demented existence.

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thunderstruck wrote:
I am going to maintain my opinion regardless of what any fact-finding mission produces so it doesn't follow that I should waste any time in doing so.


George Orwell wrote:
Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct, nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary. In no case would it have been possible, once the deed was done, to prove that any falsification had taken place.


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